hi all,

i am wondering how you would play this doomed keeper card, necronomicon.

the description is:

"If you have this on the table, during your turn you may move any Creeper from one player to another. You must then put this card back into your hand."

questions are:

1) to use this card, does it have to be in play before the start of your turn or can you play the card and then use its ability in the same turn?

2) when you use its ability, is this considered 1 play?

3) can you use this ability multiple times in a turn, particularly when "play all" is in effect, possibly creating infinite loop?

last night, we had argument about how this card should be used. what happened was this guy got tons of creepers, and he snatched the necronomicon (via action), then he put down play all. he repeatedly used necronomicon ability and shoved all his creepers away to others.

we ended up putting a house rule: you can only use its ability once. you can then put it in play, but you cannot use its ability again until the next turn.

infinite loop is too game breaking.. what do you guys think? or are we missing something here?

thanks in advanced! =]

Tags: cthulhu, fluxx, necronomicon

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1) If if doesn't say you can't use it the turn you play it, then my group allows it to be used right away.

2) If a Keeper ability doesn't say it counts as a play, we don't treat it as such.

3) It doesn't say once per turn, so again, it would be legal. But it would annoy the other players, and what gamer would do that? Your house rule is a good idea, but maybe Andy or Kristin can chime in with a solution. Me, I'd not allow that guy back over to play again anytime soon.

The card doesn't say "at the start of your turn" and therefore can be used anytime during your turn.

Also the card doesn't say "this counts as a play" and therefore can be used anytime during your turn.

Lastly, the card doesn't specify a limit, and therefore -- as above so below -- can be used anytime during your turn.

This isn't really an infinite loop.  An infinite loop goes on and on and on, without limit.  This technique is limited by the number of creepers you have before you, and therefore is fFunctionally no more or less powerful than a standard "Move all Creepers" operation which exists in other fFluxxes.  This is appropriately harder to accomplish in this edition, since Cthulhu fFluxx is all about doom and creepiness and stuff.  But a perfectly acceptable use of the evil book, I'd say.

All that aside, House Rules rule!  Your house rule is pretty good, since suddenly catching all the creepers would really suck.  Creepers are hard to shake, it's true.  And having the ability to purge all of them immediately is kind of strong.  Once per turn sounds like a good house rule.  It's not a tournament rule (Although I have seen tournaments use House Rules as much as anyone else!), but it is a good idea.

Here's how I would read it:

 

1:  Not before the start of your turn, but you would have to have plays remaining once it is on the table in order to use the ability.  So, in a Play 1 situation, playing the Necrinomicon (by setting it on the table) would end your turn and you'd have to wait until your next turn to use the ability.  In a play 2 situation, you could play the Necrinomicon as your first play and then use it's ability before your second play.... However, when using it's ability, you have to put it back into your hand again.  Since it is not on the table, it would count as another play to put it back on the table.

 

2.  No.  It says "during your turn" and says nothing about counting as a play.  So, moving a creeper would not count as a play.  But again, the Necrinomicon goes back into your hand.  Setting it down again WOULD count as a play.

 

3.  The only time it could cause an infinite loop would be if the situation is "Play All."  Because you have to pick the Necrinomicon up after moving a creeper.  To put it back down again, you would need an additional play.

 

So, say it's play 3.  Let's say I have all 8 creepers in Cthulhu Fluxx.  I also have the Necrinomicon in hand.

 

Play 1:  Set Necrinomicon down and move one creeper to another player.  Doing so, I have to pick the Necrinomicon back up.

Play 2:  Set Necrinomicon down and move another creeper to another player.  Again, doing so, I have to pick the Necrinomicon back up.

Play 3:  Set Necrinomicon down.  My turn would then be over.

 

Now, if it were "Play All," I could do the above continuously until I got rid of all my creepers and, since the Necrinomicon doesn't say I have to move one of MY creepers, I could, in theory, continue this forever, just moving one creeper every time from player to player.  Dunno why anyone would do that, but in theory, they could.

 

Since, in your situation, you said that the person had the Necrinomicon on the table and then played "Play All," I would have to say that he used the card and it's ability in a perfectly legal manner.

 

-Bill

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