How does 'The Traitor' interact with Ungoals?

-Would you win with The Traitor if the conditions of an Ungoal were met?  On one hand, the Ungoal cards say "the game ends with no winner" so in that case I would say that there was no win for The Traitor to steal.  On the other hand, in Cthulhu Fluxx, the Ungoals also state "Darkness Wins" or "Sho-goth wins", etc.. so would this count as a win the Traitor could steal?

I have been playing Cthulu Fluxx a lot lately, and it is definitely the most mysterious version of the game.  I don't know if my friends and I are just incredibly unlucky, but we seem to have no winner about 80% of the time.  We could play with the Meta-Rule, but that just seems too easy.

I was thinking that adding in The Traitor might cause more wins to happen, but perhaps not.  If there is no win for The Traitor to steal, then there is no winner.  Would The Traitor only claim an Ungoal win if the win occurred with The Secret Cultist or the The Cultist?

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To prevent headaches, I recommend leaving the Traitor out if the Cthulhu deck.

If you really insist on using it, he should not be able to win if an Ungoal ends the game.

I would say No, the Traitor does not steal from an Ungoal.  It says, " if another player meets the Goal, you win instead of them."  Darkness or Sho-goth are not players in the game.

Thanks guys.

Another question regarding The Traitor....

If you have the traitor, and someone else meets the current goal, but you also have another Creeper that prevents you from winning, does The Traitor still steal the win from the other player, or does no one win and the game continues?

The way we've played that is, the person that meets that goal in that instance would win the game, provided that they themselves don't have any creepers.  The Traitor gets "canceled out" if the person that has The Traitor has other creepers on the table.


So, if you meet the goal, with no creepers on the table (unless they are needed to meet the goal) and I have The Traitor on the table, I would win, as the Traitor would steal the win from you.  But, if I have other creepers on the table, you would win, as the ther creepers I have prevent the Traitor from stealing the win.


Here's the scenarios:

1:  You meet the goal, with no additional creeper(s).  I have The Traitor, with no additional creeper(s):  I win.

2:  You meet the goal, with no additional creeper(s).  I have The Traitor, with additional creeper(s):  You win.

3:   You meet the goal, with additional creeper(s).  I have The Traitor, with additional creeper(s):  Game continues.

4:  You meet the goal, with additional creeper(s).  I have The Traitor, with no additional creeper(s):  Game continues.


In instance 2, my additional creeper(s) would prevent The Traitor from stealing the win, so you win.

In instance 3, your creeper(s) prevent you from getting the win, so there is no win for The Traitor to steal.

Instance 4 I could see going either with the game continuing, or me winning, due to having The Traitor with no additional creeper(s).  The reason we play it as "game continues" is because, even though you have met the goal, your creeper(s) prevent you from winning, meaning that there is no win yet to steal, like in instance 3.


In short, the ONLY way The Traitor steals a win is if player 1 would ordinarily win (meaning no additional creepers), while player 2 has The Traitor on the table, with no other creepers.


Again, this is just the way that we have played with The Traitor in those instances.  I'm not 100% sure that it's the correct way, but it makes the most sense to our group.



According to this FAQ on the old rabbit wiki, you can win with the Traitor even if you have other Creepers in front of you.

So, based on that, we were playing it wrong and I cost myself a win on Christmas...  Figures...  :)


Having "Even if you have other creepers" on The Traitor (like on the Insane Nightmares Goal in Cthulhu Fluxx) would have helped, IMO.


Their explanation for why is a bit confusing, too, but I also assume that they likely know more than I do on the matter.



I'm getting errors while trying to access the link as well, but I did check this when Jeff posted his reply and I can confirm that it did indeed say that you win with The Traitor, even if you do have other creepers in front of you.


Thinking about it, it makes sense, because you're not meeting the goal, your opponent is.  So you having creepers really wouldn't matter.  Now, if your opponent had creepers while meeting the goal, while you had the traitor, I would think in that situation, the game would continue, as there is no win to steal.





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